Back in 1977 I participated in what may well have been the 1st Jacobite event in the country, at the Ellerbe Springs Highland Games in N.C.. This was right in the middle of the bicentennial and for whatever reason this never quite caught on down that way. I had hoped that This wasn't the end, and thank heavens it isn't. At least one other vet of the above event, and myself, are trying to pull together a group out of the N.C.-Md. area now.
     Now for a question or two. I just unpacked my Jacobite library and noticed some mention in one book that highland garb was more or less the "uniform" of the whole army. I take it to mean that this included lowlanders too? Were some of the recruits out of Edinburgh issued items we would normally associate with highland troops.Would they be more likely to wear breeches or trews [I take it that this reference is more to tartan cloth]. Would the trews have a flap or button fly? Does anyone have any sources on diced or tartan hose? The group we are thinking of doing is the Duke of Perth's Regt..

Y.H. &. O.S.

Ted Yeatman

Hi, Ted!

It'll be great to have another unit in the Army...!

While the Jacobite leadership had a notion of making Highland dress the Army's "uniform", that ideal was never achieved.
For the Duke of Perth's Reg't, a mixture of Highland and Lowland garb would be ideal, with the latter predominant.  Keep in mind that Scots lowlanders, while wearing kneebreeches and other "normal" clothing items, also used plaids and bonnets, the plaid being smaller than the Highland version and carried somewhat as an over-the-shoulder blanket roll.

Hope this helps!

Brian

Would they be more likely to have the flap front or button fly on the kneebreeches? There were some folks who were not sure about wearing the kilt, but who were interested in doing Jacobite, so we thought this might be the answer.

Best,

Ted Yeatman

Hi Ted,

> Would they be more likely to have the flap front or
button fly on the kneebreeches? There were some folks
who were not sure about wearing the kilt, but who
were interested in doing Jacobite, so we thought this
might be the answer. <

From talking to Missy Clark, the folks at Jas A. Townsend,
and JP Ryan, the correct breeches would have been
the fly front. Fall front would be the other style, and that
one came about a bit after the '45. The problem of
course is finding a good pattern, since most of the
ones I've found are fall front. I'll have to check and see
if I have a source for fly front breeches.

As for the Duke of Perth's regiment, were you going
to portray Perth himself or his second in command,
Jamie MacGregor? I just got bumped up to play the
Duke of Perth, but being as I'm stuck on active military
duty in SC (I'm normally a reservist, in Ohio), my plans
of forming a clan have fallen by the wayside, so I was
just going to do the Duke himself for a while. If you're
really keen on doing the Duke of Perth's regiment, and
Perth hisself, I'm sure I can step back and portray
someone else.  Chris, did you want to put your thoughts
in on this one?

Alex

The fly-front breeches were in common use at mid-century, the drop-front came in later.

Caveat: The mid-century waistcoats are quite long, so it's quite possible that the fly might be covered entirely by the front of the waistcoat...in that instance, only really close friends will know which you're wearing   :o

I think I may have just discovered the lowland equivalent of "what's worn under the kilt?" Heh.

Modified to add: BTW, are you talking about James MacGregor as is Rob Roy's eldest son? A Glengyle?   >:(  We may have the makings of a good intra-clan battle here  

::) <whistles innocently>

Agree on the fly-fronts, and both Townsend and Barkertown carry them, amongst others.  Plus, they should not be of tartan fabric.  Lowlanders looked with disdain on the exotically clad highland savages.  Lowland plaids would be of a checked or "tweed"-like pattern, too, rather than the more familiar highland tartan setts....

Hi,
  You can continue to portray the Duke as far as I'm concerned, and as far as the group goes, welcome to do that too, or a part of it. We're still organizing. The fellow who was doing this out of NC is originally from Ohio, and lives now[actually since at least the 70's] in Rockingham, near the SC line. I could put you two in touch.
   I'm going to have to check an order of battle, but I believe there was actually someone else who was in field command of the regt., at least at Prestonpans, though Rob Roy's son was second in command there. I wasn't aware of the MacGregor connection until after we started  started kicking this around, but it sounds kind of ironically fitting, as I've written a book, which just came out in trade paper, FRANK AND JESSE JAMES: THE STORY BEHIND THE LEGEND. I'm slated for a HISTORY CHANNEL  documentary, to air early next year, which was filmed in May out in Mo.. Guess what; the famous story of Jesse James and the widow was borrowed from a story about Rob Roy!  ;D
      One other question about the "plaid" mentioned above. What are the demensions?

Y.H.&.O.S.

Ted Yeatman

The lowland plaid would be the size of a large blanket, which is what its function is, say 60 inches wide by 2.5 - 3 yards in length.  

wrote on 09/24/03 at 20:31:58:

I'm going to have to check an order of battle, but I believe there was actually someone else who was in field command of the regt., at least at Prestonpans, though Rob Roy's son was second in command there

Ew, ew, ew....

Duncan is going to be VERY upset about this development   :-/   <sigh> and we ALL know how darned <ahem> petulant Duncan gets when he's upset.   ::)   ::)   ::)

I shall away and plan dissent and discord in the ranks of Glancarnoch. I finally have something to do!!   ;D

Here is a link to an order of Battle for the Jacobite Army:

http://www.cameron-site.com/Research/muster_roll%201745-46.htm

Rob Roy's son and 40 McGregors were in THe DOP's Regt., the son was going under the name Drummond there.

new here...thanks for that link...good to see my Grants we there lending a blade or two to the fray! ;D

Hi Alex!

I found a French Fly pattern in the new Panther Primitives catolog.
They are by "Period Impressions".  I should have the pattern by Saturday.

dave


wrote on 09/24/03 at 04:44:35:

From talking to Missy Clark, the folks at Jas A. Townsend, and JP Ryan, the correct breeches would have been the fly front. Fall front would be the other style, and that one came about a bit after the '45. The problem of course is finding a good pattern, since most of the ones I've found are fall front. Alex

wrote on 10/02/03 at 17:43:56:

I found a French Fly pattern in the new Panther Primitives catolog. They are by "Period Impressions".  I should have the pattern by Saturday.

I've used this pattern a few times...make sure you read the instructions carefully FIRST, because the instructions for setting the pockets (right at the beginning) can be rather confusing. Also, you may find that this takes some tailoring and adjustments to make the waistband and fly sections lie properly (especially if you have any belly to deal with). My advice is to trace the pattern out on poster paper and cut THAT instead of the pattern paper...that way, if you need to re-engineer it a little, you still have the original pattern intact as a reference. But offhand, I can't readily name another commercial pattern for fly-fronts, though I can think of at least one in Linda Baumgarten's Costume Close Up that could be rescaled and altered.

wrote on 10/02/03 at 17:43:56:

Hi Alex! I found a French Fly pattern in the new Panther Primitives catolog. They are by "Period Impressions".  I should have the pattern by Saturday.

Hi Dave!

Any chance I might be able to mooch a
copy of this pattern off you? I'd be cool
with paying costs if need be.

Alex

Lowland, like Highland, plaids were restricted to the size of the loom on which the cloth was woven. All cloth at that date would have been single width with about 26 inches being standard. The widest Highland piece I've sen was 36 inches. Wider cloth was formed by joining two lengths to give a double width plaid. Thus, 60 inches is a little on the excessive side, 54-56 inches would have been more common.

wrote on 10/04/03 at 20:29:36:

Hi Dave! Any chance I might be able to mooch a copy of this pattern off you? I'd be cool with paying costs if need be. Alex

Hi Alex!

No problem, I'll get it copied this week.  Don't worry about cost.
P.M. me your mailing address if you please sir!

dave

[quote author=Peter_MacDonald link=board=history;num=1064352830;start=0#14 Wider cloth was formed by joining two lengths to give a double width plaid. Thus, 60 inches is a little on the excessive side, 54-56 inches would have been more common.

[/quote]

Peter is of course correct on the width issue.  Most modern bolts of fabric, however, come in a 60" width - except of course the REALLY good tartan!
I've seen some folks give a correct appearance to their plaids by taking the 60" wide material and running a false seam down the middle length-wise, by stitching a little "s" shaped fold in place the entire length.  This also reduces the width a tad, too....