Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
HH
   
  HomeHelpSearchLoginRegister  
 
 
Do We rely too much on Stuart Reid? (Read 5918 times)
10/16/03 at 14:56:13

Bob_Reed   Offline
Member
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 47
**
 
Hi All,

Since the forum seems a little slow, and 'lively debate' is encouraged, I thought I would pose this question. Those of us in Jacobite reenactment - are we relying too much on the works of Stuart Reid?

The reason I pose the question is due to a recent discussion on "Sword Forum", under the Scottish culture forum. One member had noted that the preponderance of readily available material on the subject has been written by Suart Reid (1745 - a Military History, the Osprey books - not only on Highlanders, but on 18th century British subjects, 'Like Hungry Wolves", etc. - there must be a dozen by him all told). I noted a fellow reccommending a series of books on the subject, all by the one author. To a person starting out, it builds a case of seemingly overwhelming evidence in differnet books supporting the same theories. Having trained as a historian, although not practising as one, one of the first things I look for in a book on a subject is how much primary documentation an author provides, and how he handles his analysis of the primary documentation.

I should point out at this juncture that I think Stuart's work is in general a good thing, and that it has breathed a new life into the subject, and he has a fresh perspective on it. It is a subject that has been fraught with partizanship from the first moment authors set pen to paper writing about it.  I also should point out that in analyzing the primary documentation he refers to in his own work alone, I cannot draw many of the same conclusions he does.

At any rate, I look forward to your thoughts regarding this, and as the topic is discussed, I'll bring forward some examples to support my opinion.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #1 - 10/17/03 at 02:52:10

collin_king   Offline
Senior Member
Collin King AKA Srgt Calien
Mac Gregor
tampa florida

Posts: 76
***
 
Well in a nut shell..I would have to say....Yes....the reasons are many....(although no good excuses grant you)
1st and fore most...I would wager to say that most folks that portray the period (A.E. the 1740's) are coming from this from doing another period...mostly Seven years war...A.W.I. (at least over here in N.A.) Given that I'm alot of those folks who come into this period from those periods...have a "laymens understanding" of the 45...
And when they do there first forays into reading about the subject matter ...if you go to any online bokstore ...go to your local Barrnes and noble look up books on the 45
the frist ones you are going to find are Books by him...
So osprey flooded the market  with books by him....

And for what they are they arent bad.....I look at them a "primers" My wife is a history teacher....the text books she has to use are horid...so she teaches out of the box.
She still has to use the book bokk she goes beyond ...Her kids get interested in something they go and find a decent book on the subject...I think Newbies to this period will act the same way when they read his books....
 

A prince can mak a belted knight, &&A marquis, duke, an a' that! &&But an honest man's aboon his might - &&Guid faith, he mauna fa' that! &&For a' that, an a' that, &&Their dignities, an a' that, &&
IP Logged
 
Reply #2 - 10/17/03 at 11:42:28

Bob_Reed   Offline
Member
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 47
**
 
Hi Collin,

Thanks for responding. I agree they are good primers. I also wish we had some other readily accessible material, not long out of print books you need to hunt down. We need a few more views on the subject for beginners to lay hands on.

Of course, I had to hunt down "Like Hungrey Wolves" on ABE recently (mostly for the Embleton prints, as I already have his most recent opinion on Culloden), so even then his works aren't all to hand on every shelf.

I have found "The Jacobite Spy Wars" to be a useful and entertaining read, to place the 1745 campaign inton a larger picture of the subject. I'd also say the Author gave a reasonably objective portrait of the major players. Does anyone have a list of some good non-Reid books that give other views?
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #3 - 10/17/03 at 12:20:15

Steve_S   Offline
Senior Member
Leicester,U.K.

Posts: 87
***
 
I agree it's hard to break the Reid Monopoly...Christopher Duffy's "The '45" is good..but a lot of the military stuff in it is based on Reid.Geoff Bailey's "Falkirk or Paradise" is one of the few independant works.possibly because it's written from the local historian's viewpoint..very good, &,of course there are McLynn's "Jacobite
army in England",& Bruce Lenman's"Jacobite Clans of the Great Glen"(THe latter a personal favorite,as it deals largely with the Fraser's). It seems that Reid is this Generation's John Prebble...but with more personal theories built into his interpretations
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #4 - 10/17/03 at 13:35:58

collin_king   Offline
Senior Member
Collin King AKA Srgt Calien
Mac Gregor
tampa florida

Posts: 76
***
 
I Love Falkirk or Pardise....once again i would like to recomend Culloden and the last clans man by James Hunter..And For the Female veiw behind the 45 Danm Rebel Bitches by Maggie Craig...

A big problem..is although the 45 has been "treated" many many many times...it seem like the same information is revisted all the time......If this was the ACW...we would have 8000 books a month covering everything from Stonewall Jackson's tactics to...A work of Grant and Sherman's childhood problems....I guess the 45 isnt hip enough...Although you would think would the market out there there would be more
works on the 45...but a majorty of the folks who are interested in the 45...come from a "Brigdoon" mentalty and really dont wantt o know the facts..as long as it fit with in a
a hour and half movie or with in their old beat up copies of waverly or kiddnapped..they could careless ...
 

A prince can mak a belted knight, &&A marquis, duke, an a' that! &&But an honest man's aboon his might - &&Guid faith, he mauna fa' that! &&For a' that, an a' that, &&Their dignities, an a' that, &&
IP Logged
 
Reply #5 - 10/17/03 at 16:21:22

Bob_Reed   Offline
Member
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 47
**
 
Now you have depressed me Collin. There is no hope! (Not for a realistic treatment at any rate) So the only Realist out there is Reid in essence...

Maybe I should try my hand at writing an Osprey book, a Warrior series "Jacobite soldiers of the '45", or "Prestonpans" for the campaign series, just to put some dissenting interpretation of material on the table. Trouble is , I doubt Osprey would publish me, and I have it from the horses mouth Gerry Embleton no longer works for Osprey. Sad
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #6 - 10/18/03 at 12:52:47

Steve_S   Offline
Senior Member
Leicester,U.K.

Posts: 87
***
 
Looking at the Osprey list,I think they would do nearly anything..Where is my manuscript for "Combat underwear of the Waffen-ss:Feb-March 1942"....Now a "campaign" on Falkirk..that would be really nice..
Steve
 
IP Logged