Webmistress,
Aye, I would agree with you whole-heartedly on that assessment.  But it was a great deal closer to historical accuracy than Brave Heart, no?  I do know that no swordsman worth his scabbard would ever grab a blade with his bare hand, no matter how much dramatic effect it delivered, at least not and ever be able to use it again!
And the scenery was spectacular.  I truly hope I get to see the Highlands and the Hebrides before I leave this life!

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Given that Tim Roths character (the name escapes me at this point in time), was using what looks like a small sword, blade grabbing is not a problem, as small swords were very often blunt edged, and only the tip was sharp. What annoys me most about that fight is the way Rob uses his broad sword, but i still enjoy it as a piece of cinema.

I am going to split this thread up. Flask discussion to the Flask thread, Rob Roy discussion to this one. Moving it to History, where it shoud be.

In all fairness to Liam Neeson, I think he's more like 6' 5" or so. I decided to forgive the movie for that because they did manage to get his kit off at least once, and the man IS well put-together. It has been years since I've seen the film, so I can't remember who used what kind of blade, or where the blade was grabbed, and I don't have the intestinal fortitude to sit through it again. I've never been able to stand Mel Gibson, so I'm sure I wouldn't have found him any more palatable (plus I much prefer Neeson's NI twang to whatever accent it was that Gibson was attempting in Braveheart). You do NOT want to go to the Mary MacGregor debate, though...it's got some vehement people on both sides. There's enough evidence for me to think that she probably did get good and roughed up at Inversnaid, but not much more. And oddly, the only thing about her that history could ever agree on was that she had black hair...why they made her a redhead, I don't understand.'Nuff about that...

However, one thing should be remembered: Rob was certainly no innocent in terms of greed and treachery (being very good at both), he just happened to be on the "other" side, and even that is subject to debate. The much-ballyhooed Rob Roy  letters to Argyll betraying the Jacobites aren't exactly scintillating reading, and contain mostly stuff that Argyll would have known already if he had a lick of sense and a newspaper. IMO, he played both sides of the fence to improve his chances of doing well afterward...so that when he DID make his submission, he could (and did) say that he had aided the Hanoverians as much as possible given the situation. MacGregors usually had one foot on each side, because they knew that it didn't really matter who won, because they were going to get screwed politically by the winner either way. Stuart Monarchs were notoriously nasty to the MacGregors...to be totally honest, Oliver Cromwell treated Clan Gregor better than any Stuart *ever* did. It was a lose/lose proposition for Clan Gregor in every war...a devil you know/devil you don't situation.

In reality, Rob had no real "status" in the clan other than being the tutor to Glengyle, an able military strategist, and a pragmatic businessman. He had no authority to put anyone other than himself under Argyll's protection, which was just a no-brainer business decision and a gratifying nose-thumbing to Montrose. He never did have a very good relationship with Montrose anyhow, because when it came time to choose a last name, Rob decided to use his mother's name of Campbell and not Murray (which would have been the logical choice, considering where he lived). Actually, Montrose was on fairly solid legal ground having Rob bankrupted, and he was certainly not playing unfairly against a naive primitive. Rob was one heck of a sharp businessman who made a really lousy decision to take off after MacDonald and the money (and MacDonald very likely DID abscond with it, romantic stories aside) instead of showing up to explain the situation. Montrose was predictably hasty and Rob was uncharacteristically stupid. Clash of the titans. Clan Campbell had nothing whatsoever to do with any of it, other than the fact that half of the Glengyles were actually Campbells by lineage anyhow (and all Rob's sons were Drummonds, if that helps muddy the waters). Balhaldies was elected chief during the 1715, and I'm sure that Rob supported that because it put Glengyle & Co. in a much better position if the Jacobites lost (especially in terms of scoffing up Balhaldies' land if he got strung up for treason). I don't think Balhaldies really wanted the job, but neither did anyone else, because they knew that they'd get stuck holding the bag alone if things hit the fan, while everyone else dove for cover and slipped quietly away. Clan Gregor politics are incredibly convoluted, and they were their own worst enemies, being able to simutaneously stab each other in the back AND shoot themselves in both feet at the same time.You could stage an entire "Clan Wars" event just using branches of Clan Gregor. If you want to have some real fun, tell the MacGregor how much you like his cousin Glengyle and watch the smoke come out of his ears. This is why Kitty is a Roro MacGregor...I decided it would be more fun to be able to play Glencarnoch and Glengyle against each other instead of having to pick sides. Very MacGregor of me, no?

On the plus side, the Rob Roy movie neatly offered an answer to just who fathered Rob's youngest son...who was a bit of an embarrassment when he grew up.

Ok, so Rob Roy isn't exactly period, but the discussion is important in understanding Clan Gregor in the 45, and it has been a while since I've been able to make a snarky comment.

Gosh, must dash...Alan Rickman is on "King of the Hill" as a Ren Faire monarch.

See, I don't *remember* anything about the ending (I checked out on that movie mentally when Killearn was murdered, because I was so annoyed, and I wasn't really paying much attention anymore). I may HAVE to go dig the tape out and watch that end bit again. I don't remember what kind of cuts Tim Roth was making (edge or tip), or where exactly Liam Neeson grabbed the blade. I only know that I can definitely see grabbing a thrusting type of blade, or further down on the blade...depending on how mad I was and what kind of blade it was. Let me go see if I can even find my copy of this movie.

At least we all agree that the fatal would was okay. There's a great story about the MacGregors at Prestonpans swarming over the top of the MacDonald regiment and lopping entire legs off Hanoverian horses with scythes and other assorted farm tools.

And they wondered why I was an aggressive fencer? Har!