I was talking to one of our (Lace Wars 36th Regt - Flemming's) on the phone at the week end. We were chatting about the filming up in Scotland a few week back and how we were both looking forward to the next day of filming at the end of the month.
He was telling me about the comments he and some of the other Redcoats were getting from some of the extra's in attendance. Some were VERY positive and complimented the guys on their kit and drill etc. Others were stupid, uneducated, pathetic, remarks from people who clearly could not tell the difference between real people and their imaginary enemies from the past.
This isn’t the first time I’ve heard this either. There seems to be a real misunderstanding of the make up of the British (note not Hanoverian) Army. There were thousands of Scots in it, and worst still is that if people were to trace their ancestors they would find that many of them fought in the British Army at the time. The attitude towards the Redcoats from some re-enactors is frankly appalling, and yet within Lace Wars we all consider our selves to be one group, we are all friends, sit round the same fires, drink the same beer etc.
We have had some of the “true believers” as we call them try and join the group, to date none have got past my guard. Those that joined in the early days didn’t last long.
Are there any Redcoats that post on here?  If so you’re welcome round our fire.

Hi Tod,

I fully agree with your policy there. The Britsh Army kits and drill I saw at Lauder was fantastic! I admire them for the effort and research they've put into it.
The ones I did get to chat with (Mark was one of them) were really nice guys! I wouldn't mind sharing a bottle with them! 

The Jacobite reenactors who approach fellow reenactors who wear a red uniform with lack of respect and an unfriendly tone has misunderstood completely! We are involved with living history because we share an interest in history. If I am to do a reenactment of Culloden or any other '45 battle or skirmish I do it to honour all those who were present at the battle. Claiming that the British soldiers who fought and died during the '45 don't deserve being honoured is an insult both to them and to serious reenactors. It is narrow minded and ignorant.

Cheers,
Henrik

Vicar Wm Gray Beard Abernethy wrote on 04/11/07 at 16:28:11:


That would certainly make for an interesting Culloden...

Greetings All,

 On this side of the pond there seems to be the same sort of sentiment with regards to the opposing force (from either perspective) at "45" events, ranging from friendship to out right disdain( a very small minority for the latter). Being involved in a couple of time frames I see the same mind sets in all, and in the case of American Civil War even worse behavior. So I think we shouldn't worry so much about the few closed minded souls in our ranks, it appears to be a statement on human nature and not about the re-enactor of "The 45" . Personally, I have been extended the greatest of hospitality by H.R.H. Prince Charles( Chris Timm) and all who rally to his standard at our last engagement at Crown Point. My men were equally treated to the finest that the Jacobite Camp had to offer. Although due to scheduling overlap I am only able to bring my unit to the occassional "45" event we have never been unwelcome or scoffed at. We are happy to be the bad guy for the betterment of educating the public. Sadly it is with the public where we find the most resentment when wearing red, understandably for AWI and 1812 but even when portraying the the army protecting the frontier from French and Indian attacks.

 The unit we portray is largely of Scot descent. The 55th Reg't of Foote, is unique as we were origionally raised as the 57th on Christmas Day 1755 from draughts  and independant companies at Stirling Castle. Our establishment was listed at 52% Scot/Highland and filled with others from subsequent recruiting of Irish and American subjects and chosen men from other line regiments. We are breeched in red  instead of kilts ,this news was broken to the men while on transport to Ireland . As politics and economics would have it we became listed on the English Establishment  as the  Westmoreland Regiment still 55th of Foot after the end of the Seven Years War. So as previously stated there were more than a few Highland Lads serving in red for any given period in military history. So not only could that man in red be your friend, he could be your relative!

Slainte,
 Chris Cook
   Officer Commanding H.M. 55th Reg't of Foote, Howe's Own
PS how can I add a picture to one of these posts, I tried using the the icon on this page to no avail. I will check the help page as well.

Sorry to come late to this
I spoke about this previously on another thread about how it seemed strange to see the redcoats in the pub etc. but as far as I am concerned they were fellow re-enactors and deserve to be treated as such by all who attend.
I think in Scotland sometimes people are drawn to Jacobite re-enactment for various reasons......

1.It is a very obviously "Scottish" type of re-enactment, with acres of tartan against a solid sea of red much more difficult to be so blatantly Scots with the Armie of the Covenant or even the armies of Robert the Bruce or James IV so a "political" or nationalistic edge can creep in which isn't so obvious elsewhere.

2.The good guys are defiant "throw it in the air and hope for the best" idealists.

3.Many unpleasant acts were committed after Culloden and various types of anti-Scottish legislation was brought in afterward. Scots in general like a chip on each shoulder for balance you know

4.It was also the only major cross border(in all it's complicated ways) campaign after the Act of Union and both the 15 and 45 very much wanted rid of that piece of legislation even if the Stewarts may not have necessarily been so keen.

I would consider myself as one of these people when I first became involved but either maturity or spending time with genuinely nice people from wherever they are based has changed that. My political views are my own and I would never intentionally offend anyone else with them ..... Redcoat or not. But believe me they don't include restoration of the Stewarts in Scotland in the 21st Century.
I personally would never wish to portray a British redcoat soldier but I would staunchly defend the right of anyone who does and am glad they show the same pride in their uniform and re-enactment as any corresponding Jacobite.

Like it or not however the redcoat is still considered the bogey man in many parts of Scotland through ignorance of the facts and the history perhaps although I think more people are beginning to realise its not just Scotland V England and that many of the most harsh offenders were Lowland Scots. Having recently been in the British Army museum in London it was quite unusual to see Culloden and the Jacobite campaigns treated as a serious and succesful military campaign against another "irregular" but formed army rather than the "romantic lost cause" that often creeps into Scottish displays of that type.

I hope I haven't bored anyone too much with this. I am sad to hear of any Lace Wars redcoats getting any sort of cr*p from people in Scotland, it shows how emotive an issue it is still, but from hopefully educated fellow re-enactors it is not right at all. I'd be interested to know if it ever happens to the Jacobite re-enactors in England? I only once got a bit of "friendly" banter in a restaurant in Derby that was from a group of guys but I reckon that was a member of the public thing and the redcoats might have got the same.

I'd be interested on the thoughts of others
Cheers
Neil

PS I would say Hanoverian is a political term for supporters of the House of Hanover. It was the regular British Army that fought at Culloden to support King George although obviously there were Hanoverian (and possibly even Jacobite) supporters amongst them.
Recently I would say Hanoverian has become a subjective term often used by writers to imply their support for a particular viewpoint on the '15 and '45.

Tod wrote on 04/19/07 at 05:34:21:



Very true: Geoff King was cornered by schemies in Pots'n'pans town centre (if you can call it such) where they declared their support for the red coats.

Usually when this happens it is for sectarian reasons. (Anyone remember John Devlin?) but the war was seen as a sectarian war.  Both armies were British, only one had a Protestant bias, and the other a Catholic.

One of the nice things they did at Prestonpans, was that at the end of the battle both armies came together and shook hands and made friends.

Hi Andy
Aye the good old curse of Scotland narrow minded bigotry and sectarianism. England and Holland tops(Orange) worn by some Rangers supporters and  a faction of Celtic supporters living in pre-partition Ireland it's a strange world.
I was once at a William Wallace day event in Elderslie and a guy in the pub told me he that he was glad we were there celebrating a good protestant like William Wallace. I tried to explain that pre-reformation everyone in Scotland would have been a catholic but he wouldn't hear of it, as his first name was William and all the Wallaces he knew "were Proddies".........you have to laugh
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Cheers
Neil

Garg'n Uair Dhuisgear

Hi Tod
Interesting that the feeling should have changed slightly over the last few years are the political changes having an effect I wonder? I was certainly amazed on holiday in South West England in early July last year how many St George's flags were up everywhere for the World Cup.
I think any re-enactor will get a bit of stick from the public on occasion, it goes with the territory, but re-enactors should still know better than the average joe what their fellow re-enactors are portraying and have respect for the choice of regiment army or period that they wish to portray as well as how good they are. After all I don't necessarily want to be a naked Greek Hoplite but hats (and everything else) off to those that do and I don't feel the need to make any negative comments about them.
As I said previously I have nothing but the utmost respect for the British Redcoats and without them there would be no event or film.
Cheers
Neil

Garg'n Uair Dhuisgear